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	<title>Comments on: Supertankers Standing Guard Over California</title>
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	<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/</link>
	<description>Wildland Fire News, Updates &#38; Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3530</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3530</guid>
		<description>hmmm, $30,000 dollars a hour with a 3 hour guaranteed minimum usage. every time this DC-10 gets ordered up, taxpayers foot $90,000 dollars whether it gets uded or not. Too large to be tyruly effective, it&#039;s for &quot;CNN moments&quot; , to provide good shots for news. The 747 and the DC-10&#039;s, (thye have 2 now) just got their contarcts suspended by the State of Cali due to budget woes. They can still be ordered up as &#039;call-when-needed&#039;, though...remember last year when the 1st DC-10 flew so low it hit the wings on treetops and damaged the aircraft? 4100,000 repair cost, charged to the Fire, (taxpayers). For the cost of these giants, they could design and equip many smaller, more maneuverable tankers that would actually do some good in canyons or mountains...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm, $30,000 dollars a hour with a 3 hour guaranteed minimum usage. every time this DC-10 gets ordered up, taxpayers foot $90,000 dollars whether it gets uded or not. Too large to be tyruly effective, it&#39;s for &quot;CNN moments&quot; , to provide good shots for news. The 747 and the DC-10&#39;s, (thye have 2 now) just got their contarcts suspended by the State of Cali due to budget woes. They can still be ordered up as &#39;call-when-needed&#39;, though&#8230;remember last year when the 1st DC-10 flew so low it hit the wings on treetops and damaged the aircraft? 4100,000 repair cost, charged to the Fire, (taxpayers). For the cost of these giants, they could design and equip many smaller, more maneuverable tankers that would actually do some good in canyons or mountains&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3529</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3529</guid>
		<description>The Supertanker just arrived in Fairbanks, Alaska no doubt to help with the two large fires (over 250,000 acres each) that threaten the town of Nenena.  Saweet!  Can&#039;t wait to see this baby in action!&lt;br /&gt; - Kevin Alexander</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Supertanker just arrived in Fairbanks, Alaska no doubt to help with the two large fires (over 250,000 acres each) that threaten the town of Nenena.  Saweet!  Can&#39;t wait to see this baby in action!<br /> &#8211; Kevin Alexander</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3528</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3528</guid>
		<description>Nice article Mike D, thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article Mike D, thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3527</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3527</guid>
		<description>For an interesting discussion about Canada&#039;s reliance on airpower to fight fires, see:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pyne, Stephen J. “The Solution is Aircraft”: Aircraft and the Political Economy of Canadian Forest Fires. American Review of Canadian Studies, 2006, pp 458-477.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;posted on the Net here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://westinstenv.org/ffsci/2007/12/26/the-solution-is-aircraft/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For an interesting discussion about Canada&#39;s reliance on airpower to fight fires, see:</p>
<p>Pyne, Stephen J. “The Solution is Aircraft”: Aircraft and the Political Economy of Canadian Forest Fires. American Review of Canadian Studies, 2006, pp 458-477.</p>
<p>posted on the Net here:</p>
<p><a href="http://westinstenv.org/ffsci/2007/12/26/the-solution-is-aircraft/" rel="nofollow">http://westinstenv.org/ffsci/2007/12/26/the-solution-is-aircraft/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3526</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3526</guid>
		<description>An Air Tractor AT-802 working the Terrace Mountain Fire near Kelowna, BC, flipped over and sank into Okanagan Lake while making a scoop Saturday, 7/25. The pilot managed to escape without major injuries.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So smaller planes have certain difficiencies and limitations, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An Air Tractor AT-802 working the Terrace Mountain Fire near Kelowna, BC, flipped over and sank into Okanagan Lake while making a scoop Saturday, 7/25. The pilot managed to escape without major injuries.</p>
<p>So smaller planes have certain difficiencies and limitations, too.</p>
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		<title>By: TheNet411</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3525</link>
		<dc:creator>TheNet411</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3525</guid>
		<description>I am not in the firefighting industry but I do live in an area  of Northern California that saw use of 910 last year. It is my understanding that these large aircraft have very limited applications in wildland firefighting. They make great airshow props and if you have a fire on a ridge or want to stop a fire from cresting a ridge, these aircraft will do the job. But when you have fires in canyons or drainages, these aircraft cannot get in to fight them. Smaller, more agile aircraft like the S-2 and P-3 are the true heros of the day when they get in there and stop a fire&#039;s progress before they get to ridges. At least, that&#039;s how it worked up here when 910 was involved in our fire. I would much rather see the aviation budget investing in more helicopters and smaller fixed wing aircraft rather than these enormous tankers that have limited applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not in the firefighting industry but I do live in an area  of Northern California that saw use of 910 last year. It is my understanding that these large aircraft have very limited applications in wildland firefighting. They make great airshow props and if you have a fire on a ridge or want to stop a fire from cresting a ridge, these aircraft will do the job. But when you have fires in canyons or drainages, these aircraft cannot get in to fight them. Smaller, more agile aircraft like the S-2 and P-3 are the true heros of the day when they get in there and stop a fire&#39;s progress before they get to ridges. At least, that&#39;s how it worked up here when 910 was involved in our fire. I would much rather see the aviation budget investing in more helicopters and smaller fixed wing aircraft rather than these enormous tankers that have limited applications.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3524</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3524</guid>
		<description>Loss of property, absolutely. It has always been Cal Fire&#039;s mission that initial attack is the most important phase of a wildland fire. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unlike the Feds who look at the fire as a whole before committing a commanding force, Cal Fire&#039;s mission is to make it black.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Granted the U.S Forest Service serves more open lands so the option to &quot;manage&quot; fire exists.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cal Fire&#039;s dedication to the duel supertankers signals to me they intend to use them more often in the initial attack phase.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course this season may decide which aircraft sets up best for the 2010-2011 season.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It might be too much to ask for them to keep both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loss of property, absolutely. It has always been Cal Fire&#39;s mission that initial attack is the most important phase of a wildland fire. </p>
<p>Unlike the Feds who look at the fire as a whole before committing a commanding force, Cal Fire&#39;s mission is to make it black.</p>
<p>Granted the U.S Forest Service serves more open lands so the option to &quot;manage&quot; fire exists.</p>
<p>Cal Fire&#39;s dedication to the duel supertankers signals to me they intend to use them more often in the initial attack phase.</p>
<p>Of course this season may decide which aircraft sets up best for the 2010-2011 season.</p>
<p>It might be too much to ask for them to keep both.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3523</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3523</guid>
		<description>The costs of wildfire are much more than the suppression expenses. Cost-plus-loss can be 10 to 50 times suppression expenses alone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://latimesblogs.latimes.com:80/greenspace/2009/07/san-diego-countys-2003-wildfire-losses-top-2-billion.html&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Analysis of the economic utility of firefighting must consider cost-plus-loss, not just direct expenses. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Firefighter safety is an important consideration, but preventing losses is the real reason we fight fires in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The costs of wildfire are much more than the suppression expenses. Cost-plus-loss can be 10 to 50 times suppression expenses alone.</p>
<p><a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com:80/greenspace/2009/07/san-diego-countys-2003-wildfire-losses-top-2-billion.html" rel="nofollow">http://latimesblogs.latimes.com:80/greenspace/2009/07/san-diego-countys-2003-wildfire-losses-top-2-billion.html</a></p>
<p>Analysis of the economic utility of firefighting must consider cost-plus-loss, not just direct expenses. </p>
<p>Firefighter safety is an important consideration, but preventing losses is the real reason we fight fires in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3522</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3522</guid>
		<description>One comment I got and am passing along is &quot;Wouldn&#039;t be nice to move at least one of these big planes to another part of the West with fire problems.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Shows that the pros with experience are in agreement that big planes can work wonders, and that they could be useful in a lot of places. I suppose though, that with all the million-dollar homes at risk in SoCal, the Powers That Be have made some priority choices. I am not being cynical, just realistic. Fire suppression, like other govt activities, happens in a political context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One comment I got and am passing along is &quot;Wouldn&#39;t be nice to move at least one of these big planes to another part of the West with fire problems.&quot;</p>
<p>Shows that the pros with experience are in agreement that big planes can work wonders, and that they could be useful in a lot of places. I suppose though, that with all the million-dollar homes at risk in SoCal, the Powers That Be have made some priority choices. I am not being cynical, just realistic. Fire suppression, like other govt activities, happens in a political context.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://firefighterblog.com/2009/07/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california/comment-page-1/#comment-3521</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://testgfm1.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/supertankers-standing-guard-over-california#comment-3521</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the support Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the support Mike.</p>
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